Comments on: Water heating is a tankless job http://greencouple.com/2008/08/25/water-heating-is-a-tankless-job/ Learning to live green and live together Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:16:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Less costs more | GreenCouple.com http://greencouple.com/2008/08/25/water-heating-is-a-tankless-job/#comment-2103 Less costs more | GreenCouple.com Tue, 09 Sep 2008 03:20:47 +0000 http://greencouple.com/?p=343#comment-2103 [...] several weeks of suspense, we got our water bill in the mail today. Over the past 37 days, we used 67,000 gallons of water. It turned out to be much better than we’d feared: about 1/3 the cost of our worst-case [...] [...] several weeks of suspense, we got our water bill in the mail today. Over the past 37 days, we used 67,000 gallons of water. It turned out to be much better than we’d feared: about 1/3 the cost of our worst-case [...]

]]> By: Will http://greencouple.com/2008/08/25/water-heating-is-a-tankless-job/#comment-2080 Will Thu, 04 Sep 2008 19:35:43 +0000 http://greencouple.com/?p=343#comment-2080 Andy: We probably wouldn't need much more gpm, but we might want higher temperatures (for washing dirty diapers) which reduces the output on a tankless water heater. We might also want to be able to wash clothes and take showers at the same time since we'll be doing both more often. I think you're right overall, though. Even if we vastly increase our water usage and temperature, we'd still be well within the abilities of an electric tankless water heater. Very cool! Just last night, Maggie brought back some of her dried peaches. It's amazing how inefficient electricity is at heating! Andy: We probably wouldn’t need much more gpm, but we might want higher temperatures (for washing dirty diapers) which reduces the output on a tankless water heater. We might also want to be able to wash clothes and take showers at the same time since we’ll be doing both more often. I think you’re right overall, though. Even if we vastly increase our water usage and temperature, we’d still be well within the abilities of an electric tankless water heater.

Very cool! Just last night, Maggie brought back some of her dried peaches. It’s amazing how inefficient electricity is at heating!

]]> By: Andy http://greencouple.com/2008/08/25/water-heating-is-a-tankless-job/#comment-2024 Andy Wed, 27 Aug 2008 03:03:00 +0000 http://greencouple.com/?p=343#comment-2024 BTW, I just got 20 peaches cut up and in my dryer. I paid $4 for the dryer at a Salvation Army store 2 years ago (best purchase there ever!) and I picked the peaches myself the other day a $10 for 21 pounds. I still want to make a solar dehydrator, since this one takes 265 watts continuously, and most things in it take around 8 hours although I haven't done peaches before. That's about 2kW right there, yikes! BTW, I just got 20 peaches cut up and in my dryer. I paid $4 for the dryer at a Salvation Army store 2 years ago (best purchase there ever!) and I picked the peaches myself the other day a $10 for 21 pounds. I still want to make a solar dehydrator, since this one takes 265 watts continuously, and most things in it take around 8 hours although I haven’t done peaches before. That’s about 2kW right there, yikes!

]]> By: Andy http://greencouple.com/2008/08/25/water-heating-is-a-tankless-job/#comment-2023 Andy Wed, 27 Aug 2008 01:54:45 +0000 http://greencouple.com/?p=343#comment-2023 Even with higher needs (e.g. a kid) you wouldn't need more gpm, just hot water more often. In either tank or tankless that doesn't mean that you would need a larger system, it would just be on more frequently. More than 1/3 of my electric bill goes to water heating, so if I had the choice here I would go with a tiny tiny system that fit my basic needs and nothing more. Even with higher needs (e.g. a kid) you wouldn’t need more gpm, just hot water more often. In either tank or tankless that doesn’t mean that you would need a larger system, it would just be on more frequently. More than 1/3 of my electric bill goes to water heating, so if I had the choice here I would go with a tiny tiny system that fit my basic needs and nothing more.

]]> By: Will http://greencouple.com/2008/08/25/water-heating-is-a-tankless-job/#comment-2022 Will Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:13:34 +0000 http://greencouple.com/?p=343#comment-2022 Good point, Andy. Our biggest long-term concern is that if we have a kid and use cloth diapers, we're going to want to be able to wash clothes in hot water. One of the good things about tankless is that even if we buy something more than we need right now, it won't use much more electricity than a smaller one. Getting a 60-gallon tank when we only need 40 gallons (or less) is much worse. Thanks for the reassurance, Linnea and Lori! I'm glad to know that there are other households out there that don't need a lot of hot water at once. Susie: We talked to the Lowe's people earlier and they only have one electric water heater available that'll fit in the crawl space (a 40-gallon low-boy). If I recall, it was about $350, but they'd charge $65 for someone to come out and inspect the crawlspace in addition to the installation fee. Fred: It looks interesting, but I don't see anyone selling them yet. Do you have links to people selling them directly? Emily: That seems like a lot! A 40-gallon electric low-boy (which we need, because the crawlspace is low) runs $270-400. The estimate we got added on $400 for installation, which seemed high to us, although we haven't gotten another estimate on that. The electric tankless we've looked at have been $900-1200. There are some cheap ($300) point-source ones, but we'd want at least three so it makes more sense to go whole-house, I think. I haven't gotten an installation estimate, but the plumber I talked to said that it would be no harder to install a tankless electric than a tanked electric, so it shouldn't be more than $400. The temperature differential depends entirely on flow rate. Bosch has a good one for about $1000 (the Powerstar AE-125) that will do a 50 degree rise at 3.7 gpm. However, at 2.2 gpm (about a shower's worth), you'll get a rise of 80 degrees (up to 131 degrees -- it's oddly specific about that). I'm not sure what our incoming water temperature is, so I'm not sure exactly how much of a temperature change we'd want. 80 degrees seems like more than enough, though! Good point, Andy. Our biggest long-term concern is that if we have a kid and use cloth diapers, we’re going to want to be able to wash clothes in hot water. One of the good things about tankless is that even if we buy something more than we need right now, it won’t use much more electricity than a smaller one. Getting a 60-gallon tank when we only need 40 gallons (or less) is much worse.

Thanks for the reassurance, Linnea and Lori! I’m glad to know that there are other households out there that don’t need a lot of hot water at once.

Susie: We talked to the Lowe’s people earlier and they only have one electric water heater available that’ll fit in the crawl space (a 40-gallon low-boy). If I recall, it was about $350, but they’d charge $65 for someone to come out and inspect the crawlspace in addition to the installation fee.

Fred: It looks interesting, but I don’t see anyone selling them yet. Do you have links to people selling them directly?

Emily: That seems like a lot! A 40-gallon electric low-boy (which we need, because the crawlspace is low) runs $270-400. The estimate we got added on $400 for installation, which seemed high to us, although we haven’t gotten another estimate on that.

The electric tankless we’ve looked at have been $900-1200. There are some cheap ($300) point-source ones, but we’d want at least three so it makes more sense to go whole-house, I think. I haven’t gotten an installation estimate, but the plumber I talked to said that it would be no harder to install a tankless electric than a tanked electric, so it shouldn’t be more than $400.

The temperature differential depends entirely on flow rate. Bosch has a good one for about $1000 (the Powerstar AE-125) that will do a 50 degree rise at 3.7 gpm. However, at 2.2 gpm (about a shower’s worth), you’ll get a rise of 80 degrees (up to 131 degrees — it’s oddly specific about that).

I’m not sure what our incoming water temperature is, so I’m not sure exactly how much of a temperature change we’d want. 80 degrees seems like more than enough, though!

]]> By: Emily http://greencouple.com/2008/08/25/water-heating-is-a-tankless-job/#comment-2021 Emily Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:31:36 +0000 http://greencouple.com/?p=343#comment-2021 Wow. We were trying to make this same decision, and a regular electric heater was $1300 and tankless was $3500. Does the electric tankless you looked at alo cover the same 55-degree temp differential? And does your water come in at 50 degrees? Because 105 degrees is not a nice warm shower when it comes out the sprayer... Wow. We were trying to make this same decision, and a regular electric heater was $1300 and tankless was $3500. Does the electric tankless you looked at alo cover the same 55-degree temp differential? And does your water come in at 50 degrees? Because 105 degrees is not a nice warm shower when it comes out the sprayer…

]]> By: Fred http://greencouple.com/2008/08/25/water-heating-is-a-tankless-job/#comment-2019 Fred Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:44:58 +0000 http://greencouple.com/?p=343#comment-2019 I encourage you take a look at www.ViridianTankless.com. Our company is manufacturing a new high-quality, whole-house electric tankless water that will surely impress you. Regards, Fred Huggins Sales & Marketing Noble Innovations, Inc. Phoenix, AZ I encourage you take a look at http://www.ViridianTankless.com. Our company is manufacturing a new high-quality, whole-house electric tankless water that will surely impress you.

Regards,
Fred Huggins
Sales & Marketing
Noble Innovations, Inc.
Phoenix, AZ

]]> By: Susie http://greencouple.com/2008/08/25/water-heating-is-a-tankless-job/#comment-2016 Susie Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:10:27 +0000 http://greencouple.com/?p=343#comment-2016 I was amazed by the estimate you were given, so I went out and looked (Lowe's), and water heater prices are just all over the place! And it seems like you could get a couple of tankless ones for the price of a large super-efficient tank one - or, you could get a smaller tank one for a lot less money. It's hard to know how much installation would cost, but Lowe's would probably have a list of people to call - unless the big selection on-line is not readily available here in Indiana... I was amazed by the estimate you were given, so I went out and looked (Lowe’s), and water heater prices are just all over the place! And it seems like you could get a couple of tankless ones for the price of a large super-efficient tank one - or, you could get a smaller tank one for a lot less money. It’s hard to know how much installation would cost, but Lowe’s would probably have a list of people to call - unless the big selection on-line is not readily available here in Indiana…

]]> By: Lori http://greencouple.com/2008/08/25/water-heating-is-a-tankless-job/#comment-2015 Lori Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:56:01 +0000 http://greencouple.com/?p=343#comment-2015 We have an old, but still functional, water heater. It produces much more hot water than we were used to, primarily because the previous owners installed a jacuzzi tub that we've used exactly twice in the two years we've lived in this house. We do occasionally do laundry and run the dishwasher at the same time, and we've had a few instances when we've needed to use both showers at the same time (generally only with houseguests). Honestly, if I have my druthers, we'll downsize it a bit when it finally dies. As it is, our tank is large enough that we avoid the not-so-subtle reminder of cool showers to remind us that hot water doesn't come free (to us or to the planet)...which is not necessarily a good thing. So I don't think you're being unreasonable. Good luck with your water bill! We have an old, but still functional, water heater. It produces much more hot water than we were used to, primarily because the previous owners installed a jacuzzi tub that we’ve used exactly twice in the two years we’ve lived in this house. We do occasionally do laundry and run the dishwasher at the same time, and we’ve had a few instances when we’ve needed to use both showers at the same time (generally only with houseguests). Honestly, if I have my druthers, we’ll downsize it a bit when it finally dies. As it is, our tank is large enough that we avoid the not-so-subtle reminder of cool showers to remind us that hot water doesn’t come free (to us or to the planet)…which is not necessarily a good thing.

So I don’t think you’re being unreasonable. Good luck with your water bill!

]]> By: Linnea http://greencouple.com/2008/08/25/water-heating-is-a-tankless-job/#comment-2013 Linnea Tue, 26 Aug 2008 03:46:55 +0000 http://greencouple.com/?p=343#comment-2013 I think I've brushed my teeth while someone else was showering or doing dishes (in the sink, no dishwasher). But that's pretty rare, since I do most of my showering/teeth brushing pretty early in the morning. I don't think your usage is unreasonable. I think I’ve brushed my teeth while someone else was showering or doing dishes (in the sink, no dishwasher). But that’s pretty rare, since I do most of my showering/teeth brushing pretty early in the morning. I don’t think your usage is unreasonable.

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